Dear friends,
You are welcome in congregations of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA).
We are a church that believes it is wrong to discriminate against anyone based on sexual orientation. All are welcome. We celebrate diversity.
While Lutherans in the U.S. are not of one mind about sexual orientation, the ELCA, the largest Lutheran denomination in North America, has taken a stand as an open, affirming church where all are welcome.
I recognize that some of you have been wounded by churches. On behalf of the church, I apologize for the hurtful comments, exclusion, and discrimination you have experienced. Churches are filled with hurt people who sometimes hurt people. We are not a perfect church, nor filled with perfect people. We follow Christ who forgives and calls us to be part of a new community beyond race, gender, and social status. The church is an imperfect community of hope.
When asked what was most important in life, Jesus, who never spoke a single recorded word about sexual orientation, said the greatest commandment was to love God and love neighbor. He modeled love of the neighbor and stranger. He said, “By this shall all people know you are my followers, if you love one another.”
I invite you to risk being part of an imperfect church striving to be a Christ-like community. You are welcome.
Sincerely,
Michael Rinehart
February 10, 2015 at 3:18 pm
Good words Bishop. I hope many other churches recognize Christ in your words and actions!
February 10, 2015 at 3:18 pm
Greetings from Montana. Thank you for your open letter to the LGBT community. I gave a short presentation to our newly elected church council about a 2 day training that my wife and I attended (Building an Inclusive Church). My fellow council members responses were very encouraging as well as personal responses from members of our congregation to articles in our weekly notes.
We need to do this right this time to avoid the 2009 “mess.” Thank you for Lutheran leaders like you to make this possible.
February 10, 2015 at 3:46 pm
Reblogged this on Wonderings of aSacredRebel and commented:
Great words from a Bishop in the ELCA
February 10, 2015 at 4:34 pm
Bishop Rinehart, Thank you for writing this letter. I was raised in an ELCA church. I went almost every Sunday. I worked in the nursery. I was President of my Youth Group. I went to a Lutheran University. I was also in a same-sex relationship for six years. When I was in that relationship, I never felt loved by my church, which is why I left it. I was really hurt by them and turned my back on the Lutheran Church. I very much appreciate you welcoming all people back, perhaps I will reconsider my leaving. Continue to do God’s work for all people! God bless!
February 10, 2015 at 4:43 pm
My church left the elca. We except gays just as we do all sinners. Why do you think I go to church? Because I’m perfect? I think not ! ! !
February 10, 2015 at 4:52 pm
Jesus accepted all. How can we, his disciples, do less! Thank you, Bishop Rinehart, for your welcoming message.
February 10, 2015 at 5:00 pm
It is an absolute and pernicious lie to state categorically that Jesus never spoke a word about sexual orientation ( or sexual sin). You well know where Our Lord stood on sexual sin, and that marriage between one man and one woman was what Our Lord promoted. In your comments you have made The Lord of Glory into a liar, and you have done so to support your own social values and the values of the heretical church which you represent.
February 10, 2015 at 5:46 pm
SPANISH TRANSLATION:
Una Carta Abierta a la Comunidad Lésbica, Gay, Bisexual y Transgénero.
Posted on February 10, 2015 by michaelrinehart
Queridos amigos y amigas,
Todas y todos ustedes son bienvenidos en las congregaciones de la Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA por su sigla en inglés: Iglesia Evangélica Luterana en los Estados Unidos de América).
Somos una iglesia que cree que es errada la discriminación en contra de cualquier persona basándose en la orientación sexual. Todas y todos son bienvenidos. Celebramos la diversidad.
Si bien las y los luteranos en los Estados Unidos de América no tenemos el mismo pensamiento con relación a la orientación sexual, la Iglesia, la mayor denominación luterana en el país, ha asumido una posición como una iglesia abierta, respetuosa, donde todas las personas son bienvenidas.
Reconozco que algunos de ustedes han sido heridos por las iglesias. En nombre de la Iglesia, pido disculpas por comentarios ofensivos, por exclusiones y la discriminación que ustedes han experimentado. Las iglesias están integradas por personas heridas que algunas veces hieren a personas. No somos una iglesia perfecta, ni estamos compuestas por personas perfectas. Seguimos a Cristo quien perdona y nos llama a ser parte de una nueva comunidad que está más allá de raza, género, o nivel social. La iglesia es una imperfecta comunidad de esperanza.
Cuando nos preguntamos por aquello que es lo más importante en la vida, Jesús, que nunca pronunció una sola palabra registrada sobre la orientación sexual, nos repite que el más grande de los mandamientos es el amar a Dios y el amar a nuestro prójimo. Él nos muestra el amor hacia el prójimo y el extraño. Él dijo: “Por esto todos los pueblos conocerán que son mis discípulos, si se aman unos a otros”
Les invito a asumir el riesgo de ser parte de una iglesia imperfecta que se esfuerza para ser una comunidad semejante al modelo de Cristo. Ustedes son bienvenidos y bienvenidas.
Sinceramente ,
Michael Rinehart
(Traducción Pastor Lisandro Orlov. Iglesia Evangélica Luterana Unida en Argentina y Uruguay. Buenos Aires.)
February 10, 2015 at 7:25 pm
Please give your citations of exactly where jesus spoke specifically about homosexuals. Not sexual sin…. but homosexuals…. not that it really matters..
February 10, 2015 at 7:41 pm
Jesus spoke of law and grace, and as a Hebrew followed and referred to the laws, and commands and admonishments of God the Father, so do not twist and distort the truth to suit your own ends, which is to not only justify sin and perversion between two people of the same gender, but to celebrate it and make it acceptable in your own sight and in those whom you would like to persuade. We need not condemn homosexuals, as all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, but we cannot say homosexuality is not a sin, because it was and is sinful, immoral and unnatural. It is relatively recently that some have sought to redefine what is and what is not sin, and this is done purely to support a social agenda.
February 10, 2015 at 9:08 pm
Reblogged this on odes4hg and commented:
Awesome! I love being part of the ELCA.
February 10, 2015 at 9:49 pm
I disagree with your position. You ignore Holy Scripture. God commands disciples of Christ to not follow the ways of the ungodly. Also, Jesus is God and marriage is to be between a male and female. Jesus words. You have decided to follow popular cultural values over God’s narrow way.
Shame on you. Please read the Augsburg confession and the Book of Concord for Lutherans.
February 10, 2015 at 10:24 pm
Thank you Bishop! And Pastor Lisandro for providing the translation!
February 11, 2015 at 12:10 am
“This church recognizes that, with conviction and integrity:
• On the basis of conscience-bound belief, some are convinced that same-gender sexual behavior is sinful, contrary to biblical teaching and their understanding of natural law. They believe same-gender sexual behavior carries the grave danger of unrepentant sin. They therefore conclude that the neighbor and the community are best served by calling people in same-gender sexual relationships to repentance for that behavior and to a celibate lifestyle. Such decisions are intended to be accompanied by pastoral response and community support.
• On the basis of conscience-bound belief, some are convinced that homosexuality and even lifelong, monogamous, homosexual relationships reflect a broken world in which some relationships do not pattern themselves after the creation God intended. While they acknowledge that such relationships may be lived out with mutuality and care, they do not believe that the neighbor or community are best served by publicly recognizing such relationships as traditional marriage.”
Bishop Rinehart, does this portion of our ELCA statement on human sexuality still apply?
February 11, 2015 at 12:24 am
“This church recognizes that, with conviction and integrity:
• On the basis of conscience-bound belief, some are convinced that same-gender sexual behavior is sinful, contrary to biblical teaching and their understanding of natural law. They believe same-gender sexual behavior carries the grave danger of unrepentant sin. They therefore conclude that the neighbor and the community are best served by calling people in same-gender sexual relationships to repentance for that behavior and to a celibate lifestyle. Such decisions are intended to be accompanied by pastoral response and community support.
• On the basis of conscience-bound belief, some are convinced that homosexuality and even lifelong, monogamous, homosexual relationships reflect a broken world in which some relationships do not pattern themselves after the creation God intended. While they acknowledge that such relationships may be lived out with mutuality and care, they do not believe that the neighbor or community are best served by publicly recognizing such relationships as traditional marriage.”
Does this portion of our statement on human sexuality still apply?
The Rev. Steven P. Tibbetts
February 11, 2015 at 8:04 am
If Jesus is the God of the Old Testament and if He is part of the Trinity which inspired also the New Testament, then He spoke of these things elsewhere in Scripture.
Unless you are a Marcionite.
February 11, 2015 at 8:09 am
Very good. what you said was Right. We should not discriminate any person based on their Sexual Orientation. This is a good step by the ELCA to welcome LGBTs into the church. We appreciate you. regards — Ch. Samuel Anil Kumar, Communication, Research & Documentation Coordinator, Dalit Bahujan Resource Centre, Guntur, Andhra Pradesh, India.
February 11, 2015 at 8:37 am
“It is technically true that Jesus did not specifically address homosexuality in the Gospel accounts; however, He did speak clearly about sexuality in general. Concerning marriage, Jesus stated, “At the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh[.]’ So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate” (Matthew 19:4–6). Here Jesus clearly referred to Adam and Eve and affirmed God’s intended design for marriage and sexuality.”
Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-homosexuality.html#ixzz3RRmgGzwW
3 Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a [a]stricter judgment. James 3:1
February 11, 2015 at 8:53 am
Reblogged this on Pastor Scot McCluskey.
February 11, 2015 at 8:55 am
Thank you Bishop Mike. Reblogged.
February 11, 2015 at 9:27 am
Mark, John Flanagan believes that God created a small portion of the population with a “Special Sin.” The scales are still covering his blind eyes. At one time the Gentiles were considered unclean, and not fit to be part of the family of God. But in a vision God told Peter: What I have made clean, let no man call unclean. We are indeed part of the family, and fully accepted by our Loving Father. John Flanigan does not get to vote on our worthiness. We thank God for that.
February 11, 2015 at 10:14 am
You are welcome to an LCMS church as well. Homosexuality is a sin, and sinners are welcome to visit. But to join, one must leave this sinful lifestyle and confess Christ as King.
February 11, 2015 at 10:50 am
Great letter. Thanks so much. A friendly amendment would be to change “sexual orientation” to “sexual orientation and gender identity.” This is a shout out to the T in LGBT in your title. Since the T is about gender not sexuality.
Thanks again for your letter. It’s beautiful and needed!
Pastor Megan
February 11, 2015 at 11:24 am
Yes Megan, thank you for this redirect. Others have also called this to my attention. Very helpful.
February 11, 2015 at 11:25 am
It would be a truly frightening church that based itself on all Levitical codes.
February 11, 2015 at 11:28 am
To – peacock. re-comment below; I never suggested homosexuality is a special sin, because it is one of many, but you have despised the word of God by giving it a special exempt status when you have no right to do so. Rather than argue with me, try your argument on The Lord, and see if there is any merit in your desire to determine what is sinful and what is not, when Holy Writ, in numerous places, admonishes the practice of homosexuality, and formication outside of marriage between a man and a woman. When two men engage in the bestial and perverse sexual acts of homosexuality they are committing sin, and to call it anything less is to defend vileness.
February 11, 2015 at 11:50 am
Which is why so many remain in the closet. As a former LCMS member, I recall those who were elders sitting in judgment on others and enjoying it! Yet, they chose to turn a blind eye to their own sins. I thank my God that I am no longer a part of such a mean spirited, judgmental group. I look to my Savior as the model of inclusiveness and love. He ate, drank and associated with those that society cast aside. What a beautiful model He is for us all. I find that most are fearful of the homosexual community. How very sad.
February 11, 2015 at 12:16 pm
Thank you for this. I am the gay son of an ELCA (ALC at the time) Lutheran minister and was married in a wonderful ELCA church in Olympia, WA in a beautiful ceremony surrounded by family and friends holding candles as we made our vows before the God who brought us together. We’ve been in each other’s lives for more than 15 years. We are truly grateful to the ELCA for its informed and visionary reading of Christ’s message of love in scriptures. 35 years ago, my father said to me “God loves you, I love you, it doesn’t make any difference.” http://youtu.be/cSM9m2ePOfg
February 11, 2015 at 12:17 pm
For any who are disheartened by negative comments, remember Jesus’ words about shaking the dust off your feet when people fail to see God’s call for your life. These negative comments are important, because they allow people who wouldn’t normally have these kinds of comments directed at them to gain empathy for the ways saying things out of faith and love can sound like the opposite. They also reenforce why ever word in Bishop Rinehart’s letter is needed.
So, if the negative comments bug you, reread the Bishop’s letter and you’ll find an apology for them.
February 11, 2015 at 12:20 pm
He was referring to heterosexuals in this passage. God also created gay people. For us NOT to enter into loving committed relationships is every bit as unnatural as it would be for a straight person to be gay. It is about honoring the way God made each of us, and if you look around you, this is a God who loves variety. http://youtu.be/cSM9m2ePOfg
February 11, 2015 at 12:22 pm
Thank you Mr. Flanagan, I can tell that you practice Jesus’ two admonitions. When you call me vile you also call the One Who saved me vile.
Sent from my iPhone
>
February 11, 2015 at 1:21 pm
Note that many of the comments here are coming from outside the ELCA.
February 11, 2015 at 1:22 pm
All: In my OP I said “We are a church that believes it is wrong to discriminate against anyone based on sexual orientation.” I inadvertently left off gender identity, and I am sorry.
I believe Transgender people are wholly loved by God, and long for a day when there is no discrimination based on gender identity. I, and other ELCA Lutheran churches are still learning about gender identity, but I commit to growing into a church that is safer for all people.
Please come and join us; we need your gifts, talents, and experiences for the building up of the Body of Christ.
February 11, 2015 at 1:29 pm
I have neither the space here nor the desire to exegetes the various passages in which Paul address the Roman practices temple prostitution and pedophilia. Not can we tackle every little law in the Bible, like women not speaking in church. But I will say this. If Christianity succumbs to a fundamentalist religion of laws, it will be indistinguishable from all other human religion whereby people attain righteousness by being good enough.
February 11, 2015 at 1:55 pm
My apologies for my double posting. spt+ (ELCA pastor)
February 11, 2015 at 2:18 pm
AMEN….
we must not follow the secular society …but the laws of God….
Jesus came NOT to change the law, but to fulfill the law…..God has spoken about homosexuality and we all not His judgment…..God does NOT change….JUST because society has!
February 11, 2015 at 3:04 pm
Nobody has called for a theocracy on the level of religions like Islam, however, God has given you a will to believe Him or not, and by the way, Our Lord is fundamentalist, not liberal in His expression of what is and what is not sinful in His eyes. Yes, He is compassionate and long suffering, and has provided each of us with grace, and Our Savior, but you failed to appreciate any of this, in order to provide what you believe is theological cover for willful sin. If you cannot even admit or identify sin, and are pleased to deny what scripture says, then you are no better than President Obama, who refuses to admit that Islamic terrorism is not just a fringe, but a way of life and a way of belief for millions of Muslims worldwide.
February 11, 2015 at 5:41 pm
I have no right to judge anyone.
February 11, 2015 at 8:10 pm
God loves us but hates our sin. He wants to reconcile and renew relationships with us. I pray He will search and soften our hearts so that we can be receptive to His truths and love one another in a way that would glorify Him.
February 11, 2015 at 8:16 pm
Bishop Rinehart, thank you for posting such a positive affirmation of welcoming. I believe if a church rejects you for your core being, find a church that will. It took years for me to come to that place.
My husband is a lifelong Lutheran, I converted as a direct result of acts and kindness of Rev. Dick Staats, his wife Linda and the congregation at Faith Lutheran Church in Phoenix in the 1997-1998 time frame. Dick recognized us as a couple the first time we attended church and communed us together, as a couple. It was an act of welcoming that to this day and for the rest of my life I will always remember and cherish. Flash forward to 2008, Terry and I married in California in a Lutheran Church. As people of faith, marriage in a Lutheran Church was the only form of marriage for us, in a religious ceremony before God, NOT in a civil service.
Flash forward to Minneapolis/St. Paul Church wide in 2009. Terry was a voting member where LGBT history was made within the Lutheran Church.
Flash forward to 2014, Arizona’s ban against same sex marriage was overturned as a result of what a group of Lutherans in Arizona started. We filed the first case and were the Lead Plaintiffs in Connolly vs. Jeannes. The major “rights” organizations were not planning to challenge the Arizona Ban on Same Sex Marriage and only did so because we filed the case. At an Advent service of Lessons and Carols in December 2013, a simple question started it all. Our attorney, also a Lutheran, from our church, filed and won the case. Others within our Lutheran congregation inspired and helped to make this a reality. We felt driven by God to fight this social justice issue and believe it was God’s work, not outs. Without hesitation, without question. Our current welcoming congregation, University Lutheran Church and Lutheran Campus Ministry at ASU in Tempe, Arizona welcomes all. And when we sing “All are Welcome” this congregation really means it. I hope other congregations will demonstrate by actions that “All are Welcome”.
It is now time for the church to do more than just welcome back the LGBT community. Congregations need to provide marriage enrichment courses to their LGBT members who wish to marry. The congregations and members need to reach out, embrace and demonstrate God’s love, not just “say” it. Gods work is only just beginning to be felt by the LGBT community who were previously ostracized by churches, some forever, I fear. With God’s help and nudging from those who demonstrate Christ’s love, I am hopeful and thankful to have found the ECLA, congregation and loving Pastor’s over the years. I am accepted by Grace and give thanks for this mystery of Grace I have struggled to understand.
February 12, 2015 at 7:15 am
Thank you Bishop Mike – have shared your link and affirmed your words!
February 12, 2015 at 7:57 am
If you are a member of a church, how do you reconcile your statement about “not judging anyone” with 1 Corinthians 5:12-13?
February 12, 2015 at 10:11 am
Thank you, Pr. Rohrer, for these insightful and compassionate words.
February 12, 2015 at 10:12 am
Thank you for this important and meaningful post.
Sadly, many of the negative and fundamentalist comments further illustrate to me that — even amongst Lutherans –we do not all serve the same God or even follow the same Christ.
February 12, 2015 at 10:14 am
Thank you, Bishop Mike, for this proclamation of the Gospel.
February 12, 2015 at 10:33 am
My friend, our LGBT friends are not evil.
February 12, 2015 at 10:34 am
The negative comments are mostly not ELCA Lutherans, but yes, we are a community not of one mind.
February 12, 2015 at 11:07 am
I will not make any other comments on this topic except this….since the sides are drawn and neither will relent. No one on the fundamentalist side has said liberal Christians do not follow or serve Christ. We cannot judge and we do not dare say who is or who is not a saved child of God. The Lord saves by grace and IN SPITE of our sins, however, we also know that liberal Christians who claim to follow Christ are quick to dismiss numerous verses of God’s word in order to further claim that sexual sin outside of the marriage of one man and one woman is not sin, that it is merely a lifestyle choice to prefer the formication of two same gender individuals, and furthermore, that even a so called “marriage” between same gender people is acceptable. This goes against thousands of years of Apostolic and church teachings on human sexuality, biblically based, in which all church bodies prior to this generation have agreed. Now, churches like ELCA dare say that Christ would see no unrighteousness or sinfulness in these sexual unions is a staggering and erroneous position. With the adulterous woman, Jesus said, “Go and sin no more.” He did not say’ “Go and enjoy your sins, they are covered by grace.” For my brothers and sisters in ELCA, you need not believe me, you may ignore my words, but go to your Bibles. Read what God’s word says, not what your Bishop, or your Synod, or your friends tell you to make you feel good. The word of God is the truth, and you cannot twist scripture to sculpt a Jesus of your own imagination who will agree with the serious errors and lies advanced by some to justify sin.
February 12, 2015 at 1:59 pm
It makes no sense to use words like ‘Obama’ and ‘radical Islam’ to prove your point on the topic of homosexuality or the meaning of biblical text, Mr. Flanagan. A ‘liberal’ Christian is just a Christian. Arguments aside, Bishop Mike’s letter is about welcoming all people, regardless of sin.
February 12, 2015 at 2:14 pm
It makes no sense to use ‘Obama’ or ‘radical Islam’ to prove your point, Mr. Flanagan. Neither has anything to do with homosexuality or biblical text. Equating anything that can be construed as LIBERAL to Obama and Islam is getting really old and tired. A ‘liberal’ Christian is just a Christian. Bishop Mike’s letter is an invitation to all people regardless of sin.
February 12, 2015 at 3:52 pm
Thank you for your comment
February 12, 2015 at 9:45 pm
Bishop Rinehart, as an ELCA pastor who is not “of one mind” with you, do I have a place in your “Christ-like community”? Or is this gathering of yours limited to those who have embraced the all-welcoming, all-affirming, everybody-love-everybody proclamation?
February 13, 2015 at 12:22 pm
My understanding is that it does apply, because the ELCA, while taking seriously a call to welcome, also takes seriously the ability for individual congregations to discern God’s calling for them without feeling the need to have policies dictated from above. The result of the 2009 policies reflects the diversity of positions within congregations throughout the denomination with regard to human sexuality and a recognition that though we share a faith in a God of love who freely gives the gift of Grace to those who believe, profess their faith, and confess their sins, the human institution of the Church as it discerns its vision is not perfect. As a partnered gay man, I can certainly understand the difficulty of these conversations. However, what I am thankful for is the fact that there are many congregations in the ELCA where I can be welcomed with my partner for who I am, without judgment or condemnation. And, the fact of the matter is that many gay people actually have been deeply hurt by the church for this type of condemnation or even perceived condemnation, something which you must acknowledge. And, though you are right to bring this into the discussion, the implication that the ELCA would somehow not have congregations who welcome gay members and their partners without reservation because of these statements is completely untrue. I’m thankfully a member of one of those open and affirming congregations, and I thank God every day for that community of faith that upholds all who join, that affirms traditional families, the elderly, the young, and yes, even the gay person, even those in relationships (keeping in mind a standard of faithfulness and monogamy within those relationships). So, while I appreciate you posting the full picture of the ELCA’s position, it would be entirely disingenuous of you to claim that because the sexuality statement is complicated because of this complex issue in the church that congregations must not exist that do offer the exact welcome extended by this bishop. And, I thank God for those willing to engage in a respectful and accurate conversation, and thankful for congregations who are still questioning or stand firmly in a different position. We are in the business of discerning God’s calling for our lives, and we live in a world that is full of wonderful complexity. And yet, even if we disagree, we can still demonstrate a love of God and love for each other through our unity in Christ. Soli deo Gloria.
February 13, 2015 at 12:36 pm
I am thankful for a God who is above human understanding, particularly when we seem far to interested in determining which “side” God is on in any number of issues. This type of discussion often leads to a great perversion of faith, against which Jesus often admonished even those who were the religious authority of the day. I would suggest a reading of Matthew. It is quite enlightening in areas of how we are to treat one another and perhaps offering us a better guide for how we might approach those issues which serve to divide us. If you read this carefully, passages such as the parable of the lost sheep and coins are about what God does, not about what we do. Too often, we are willing to cast people out, but Jesus seeks us out. We are to look for the coins, and the sheep. And, though it’s true that Jesus said “Go and sin no more,” Jesus said this knowing full well that it is impossible for us to be pure and sinless. That is precisely why the gift of Grace given to us by the death and resurrection of Christ was needed. Now, we can quibble about statements about sexuality, and whether or not it’s important that we have an accurate understanding of the context of those particular verses, or why we privilege some verses while ignoring others, something that even so-called “conservative” Christians are guilty of in this application. My biggest question comes with regard to constant admonitions against casting people out, against condemning people, and against public displays of piety. And yet, those who are the most vociferous in their criticism seem to conveniently ignore that we are to love and serve God by loving and serving others, and that means loving and serving others…even those we might consider our enemies. I would love to live in a world where we could talk about gay marriage without scare quotes that serve only to disparage others and become a symbol not of love but of latent hatred.
February 13, 2015 at 3:26 pm
The not of one mind are among our ranks. Yes, all are welcome and all are here. My family members are not of one mind about this issue and yet love one another, enjoy meals together and debate together.
February 13, 2015 at 3:42 pm
Well spoken! We feel the same way in our church. All sinners are most welcome in our church and if not it would consist of no one. We are to also love one another. It is just too bad that some churches change Gods word to suit the times we live and to suit the interest of the people. We are also a welcoming church forgiving of sins as we are all sinners. But I am so glad that I belong to a church that sticks to the word and does not back down because of the change of the times where it’s ok to do anything from same sex marriage to abortions just because the world says it’s ok. What’s next- self suicide, adultery, 2 or 3 women to 1 man or vice versa. Gods word is the same yesterday, today and will be forever.
February 13, 2015 at 6:33 pm
Bishop Rinehart,
There is some confusion about the meaning of your letter on the internet. My understanding is that your letter says that all congregations in the ELCA, regardless of whether they hold position #1, #2, #3, or #4 as outlined in Human Sexuality: Gift and Trust, are committed to welcoming to LGBT persons. Is that correct?
Pastor David Charlton, ELCA
February 13, 2015 at 7:05 pm
I wish it were so.
February 13, 2015 at 7:12 pm
“Lutherans are not of one mind” means Lutherans of all ilk, including ELCA.
February 13, 2015 at 7:43 pm
You’re welcome. I have had many gay friends through the years. Good, kind, loving followers of Christ. More so than the folks that demonize them.
February 13, 2015 at 8:13 pm
I don’t want to misunderstand you. Are you saying, “No, those who hold position #1 and #2 are not welcoming?”
February 13, 2015 at 8:21 pm
I did not say that.
February 13, 2015 at 8:40 pm
From “Human Sexuality: Gift and Trust:”
“While Lutherans hold various convictions regarding lifelong,
monogamous, same-gender relationships, this church is united
on many critical issues. It opposes all forms of verbal or
physical harassment and assault based on sexual orientation. It
supports legislation and policies to protect civil rights and to
prohibit discrimination in housing, employment, and public
services. It has called upon congregations and members to
welcome, care for, and support same-gender couples and their
families and to advocate for their legal protection.
“The ELCA recognizes that it has a pastoral responsibility to all
children of God. This includes a pastoral responsibility to those
who are same-gender in their orientation and to those who are
seeking counsel about their sexual self-understanding. All are
encouraged to avail themselves of the means of grace and
pastoral care.”
February 13, 2015 at 10:02 pm
Thank you for your thoughts, Jon. My question remains unaddressed.
spt+ (ELCA pastor)
February 13, 2015 at 10:20 pm
Sorry PZ, thought I responded, but perhaps it didn’t post: “Yes. It applies. You are welcome to your beliefs on the matter. I’m welcome to mine. The letter was to not to you, but rather to the LGBT community, inviting them.
February 14, 2015 at 10:07 pm
I assume you get your information about Jesus’ eating and drinking buddies from scripture. Those passages tell us He did so to call them (us) to repent.
And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples. And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners? But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. (Matthew 9:10-13)
And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him. And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners? When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. (Mark 2:15-17)
And Levi made him a great feast in his own house: and there was a great company of publicans and of others that sat down with them. But their scribes and Pharisees murmured against his disciples, saying, Why do ye eat and drink with publicans and sinners? And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. (Luke 5:29-32)
Jesus is “a friend of publicans and sinners!”. And to all He preached saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.” (Mark 1:15)
February 18, 2015 at 4:02 pm
My congregation is an ELCA congregation in a small, rural community. They immediately changed the bylaws to EXclude anyone who is openly LBGT from being called regardless of the ELCA’s policy. Not fair, in my opinion, and seems like a discrimination issue, but I suppose you have to start somewhere. 60 years ago ‘LBGT’ was ‘colored’.
February 20, 2015 at 5:46 pm
Interesting discussion. If I may shift direction a bit, I find it fascinating that a church (the ELCA) that espouses all this love stuff and pontificates inclusiveness turns around and sues churches who want to leave! Research Eau Clair Wisconsin to understand what I am saying. Bishop, get your whole church to walk the talk of Grace! It seems that the ELCA and the Episcopal Church find it more interesting to waste money on stupid lawsuits than preach the Gospel and help the poor. I am sure Jesus would agree with that – oh darn, I forgot about 1 Corinthians 6:1-12.
February 21, 2015 at 10:23 am
The last thing Jesus said to the woman caught in adultery (sexual sin) was “go and SIN no more”.
Forgiveness is available but people today don’t want it.
you either love God and hate sin or you love sin and hate God.
People today want to love God with all their heart, mind, soul and strength – their own way not God’s way and that’s a big problem.
February 24, 2015 at 12:46 pm
This is another case of the ELCA not being a very loving or grace filled church. Sue away. It appears when a church has assets the ELCA wants to make sure the departing congregation’s pockets are picked.
http://www.nebraska.tv/story/28166174/holdrege-church-dispute-reaches-nebraska-supreme-court
February 28, 2015 at 4:28 am
MichaelRinehart, the 8-year-in-the-making multi-million dollar 48 page ELCA social statement “Human Sexuality: Gift and Trust” was put through various drafts yet there was no time, effort or expense put in to bother with exegesis of scripture referring to homosexual acts in the Scriptures. At least if this had been undertaken within the process and explained in the social statement,, there could be reasoned debate about the basis for the social statement’s dramatic departure from traditional confessional Lutheran teaching on homosexual acts. Tradition should not be revered as an idol, nor should Scripture be disregarded or ignored in a social statement which itself acknowledges that its new teaching and theology is a departure from the Lutheran confessions. The constitutional and confessional crisis that the ELCA exists in right now was provoked by ELCA churchwide leadership overrreaching by even allowing a vote to take place on a lower level document of the church, a social statement, which by its own admission departs from the Lutheran confessional framework defined by the ELCA constitutions. That action by and failure in leadership caused the confessional and constitutional crisis which forced confessional Lutherans into exile. The social statement offered no scriptural exegesis that would justify a different interpretation of Scripture allowing for homosexual conduct in any context. It’s hard to believe that there was no time, resources or space to do that properly within the social statement. It is too clear that the ELCA has become an admixture of a political action committee / social service organization, and that its leadership is engaged primarily in political lobbying and social work with Christ HImself being reduced to a campaign brand or social symbol within the ELCA, and with leadership being social workers and administrators. There is nothing pastoral in failing to preserve, preach and teach the Gospel. Homosexuals along with all the rest of us sinners– each and every one of us– are in need of hearing the fullness of the Gospel, the promise of God’s unending and undeserved grace, with the sinner’s repentance and turning away from sin and following our own fleshly desires and turning towards God and trying to live according to Christ’s perfect example. He came to fulfill the law, not to abolish it. Anything else is a false political and social gospel that is designed by mankind for itself according to the wisdom and desires of the age. These are works of man that ELCA is engaged in. No matter how much good the ELCA does for world hunger or civil rights, these works of man cannot and do not save and will not bear the fruits of the Holy Spirit. The increasing ongoing centralizing of institutional power within the Office of the Presiding Bishop will not save the failed experiment called the ELCA.
February 28, 2015 at 4:46 am
Gender identity is addressed in the Scriptures. God made them male and female. There are also passages about what is translated into English as eunuchs.Some are born eunuchs and some are made eunuchs. All persons are loved by God. The Gospel message is to call all to repent and follow Christ, not follow their own way. And yes, I was in the ELCA.
February 28, 2015 at 4:49 am
The ELCA is a political action committee / social service organization doing good in society. It is no longer the church it professes to be in word only.
February 28, 2015 at 5:16 am
Thank you. I just read Matthew 10 where “shake the dust off your feet” appears. It is a short but very powerful chapter about Christ sending His disciples out to preach the Gospel. He tells them how to react if people won’t listen to the Gospel, and explains throughout the chapter the judgment that befalls those who refuse to listen to the Gospel. These are not my judgments but what Christ says the judgment will be to those who will not listen.
He talks about putting the Gospel first, above family even. He says he did not come to bring peace, but a sword. This is a spiritual battle. The charge to the disciples is to do Christ’s work on earth, proclaiming the Gospel for all to hear, from the rooftops. Apologizing or repenting for proclaiming God’s word appears nowhere in Matthew. The Gospel is radical and inclusive and Christ is unapologetic in Matthew 10. No one person or class of persons is singled out for their sins. All are invited and some will be divided through proclaiming the Gospel. The message is for all sinners to repent of their sins, stop going the way of the world and to “take up your cross and follow me.” We proclaim not our own message but Christ’s gospel.
February 28, 2015 at 5:24 am
Nobody is demonizing gay friends, family or parishioners. Apologizing for the Gospel is not required. We are all– every one of us– rank sinners. We proclaim Christ, not ourselves. The message doesn’t change with the political winds of the times.
February 28, 2015 at 5:54 am
“Jesus never spoke a word about sexual orientation…” Interesting proposition… Yet Jesus spoke loud and clear regarding MARRIAGE: “…Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female…Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.” -Matthew 19:4-6
February 28, 2015 at 9:36 am
This is inaccurate.
February 28, 2015 at 2:47 pm
MichaelRinehart,
My prayer is for the Holy Spirit to work in and through the church and the world perfecting God’s plan for us, his children, and that these heartfelt thoughts I have prayed and suffered over actually plant a few seeds for fruits of the Holy Spirit to grow from this if God will grant the increase.
The church is affirming what? Persons or behaviors? We must always affirm all persons, as all are beloved and called by God to Himself. He does not wish for one of us to be lost even though we wander and lack understanding and prefer to follow our own inclinations. Behaviors are not always worthy of affirmation. Herein lies the blurred distinction and problem within the ELCA with its social gospel of inclusivity based on status of being LGBTQi. There has been hurt, hatred and oppression of people from within and outside the church to a vibrant group of people who have had to endure and suffer abuse, violence and direct harm of all kinds. To the extent your open letter decries that and seeks to ask forgiveness on behalf of the church and the world, I agree wholeheartedly.
It stands to reason that without any agreement within the ELCA “whether homosexual relationships should be honored uplifted sheltered and protected,” (Human Sexuality: Gift and Trust at p. 19, para. 4) then some ELCA pastors, congregations and individual members also believe, teach and preach the Gospel based on “bound conscience” that Christ welcomes all, and so do we, for the love of God and our neighbor.
Therefore, it is equally true that some ELCA members, pastors and congregations believe, teach and preach that all sexual conduct outside of a marriage between a man and a woman is sinful. (Option #1 of the Human Sexuality Statement, at p. 19). We are called to repentance and turning away from sin and back to Christ’s way. All sin, including sexual sin, is to be censured (instead of honored), discouraged (instead of lifted up) exposed ( instead of sheltered) and abandoned (instead of protected) starting first and foremost with our own sin. We must accept that we are sinful by nature, and attend to the log in our own eye before focusing on getting the speck out of our brother’s eye. It is this message which is often lost or which we forget. We think someone not in church needs to be there to hear it. It is times like these that I realize most of all God wanted me to hear and do His Word.
The Gospel itself is a loving call to repentance and self-examination and putting our sins and our burdens at the foot of the cross, and praying daily for the strength and wisdom to leave our burdens there with Christ and not take them up again by ourselves and go our own way again. Sadly, we all do this (I think I do it more than most as I get easily distracted). We all need help to remember to exercise our faith and put our sins down again. Christ is right there with and for us. WE need to step out in faith and not rely upon our own power or understanding. The power of the cross is both transformative and redemptive if we submit to Christ. This is an act of will. He helps us when we submit and commit to him, showing us His Way.
Christ engaged with the woman living in adultery (read: me and you living our own way) telling her he does not come now to judge her, yet he engages with her exactly where he finds her, sits with her and encourages her to “go and sin no more.” Do we not all need to hear this? Is this message only for some so as not to offend those who do not wish to hear the fullness of the Gospel, which is that not one iota of the law is not abolished, but is fulfilled by the Gospel?
The affirming church is to affirm persons as beloved, loved and called by God since conception in their mother’s womb. It is not to affirm our human natures and fleshly desires as worthy of trust and satisfaction, or as mechanisms to build trust and get mutual satisfaction. Christ Himself calls us to abandon the desires of the world, the flesh and tbe devil, and to follow Him instead and “take up our cross.” He is right there with us, and offers himself in the Sacrament of Holy Communion for strength along the way. He knows what we need.
It is not affirming to apologize for the proclaiming of the Gospel truth that binds us all, no matter how hard it is to hear and no matter how out of season the Gospel is in the present age.
Matthew Chapter 10 is brief, clear, bold, and unapologetic in this regard as to what Christ asked of his disciples, and what he told them they could expect from the world in return for their proclamation of the Gospel. Only now we have the persecution and dissension from within the church itself calling the Gospel and those who preach it in its fullness (and as accepted still in the Social Statement) “bigoted” “hateful” and “hurtful” and much, much worse. Is the hope that the Gospel be silence or not rightly preached? This itself is the handiwork of Satan. He likes to divide, confuse and conquer. He does not need to get us to worship him as much as he needs to get us off the path of following Christ.
We all have a choice in who we follow and what we practice. It is not hateful or hate speech to preach the truth in love, even though some will depart and say, “This is too hard.” If they did it to Christ, they will do it to his disciples. He was perfect. We are . . . not so much. It is decidedly unpopular to preach and teach that homosexual conduct, adultery, and fornication is sinful and that homosexuals are called to God as His own beloved children. This is foolishness to the world, which is perishing. The world offers a message of acceptance of these practices so the church is now following suit.
–the ELCA Social Statement itself admits that it puts forth four distinct, some mutually exclusive and equally valid conclusions regarding its teaching and theological statemente on homosexual unions. Three of these depart from the teachings of the historic Christian tradition and Lutheran Confessions. See “Human Sexuality: Gift and Trust, p. 18 at para. 3 (2009).
— It also affirms the historic Christian tradition and Lutheran Confessions teaching that marriage is between a man and a woman according to the Gospel of Mark as reflected by God’s one flesh union of man and woman in Genesis. See “Human Sexuality: Gift and Trust, p. 15 at para. 3.
It does not redefine marriage but then proceeds to depart from marriage as the only context for human sexual expression based on social structures which are designed to promote trust.
The ELCA constitutions (Churchwide, Synods, and Model for Congregations) all proclaim that Scripture is the authoritative norm and source of our faith and life, and that the Lutheran confessions bind us as a church. A Social Statement is a lower level document which cannot supercede the parameters of our faith embodied and safeguarded to the church not only in biblical and confessional witness but as a matter of corporate congregational life.
As a constitutional church, If the ELCA has determined to depart from the historic Christian tradition and the Lutheran confessions, it may legitimately and forthrightly do so by constitutional amendment and no other way. The constitution is binding even if the Secretary of the ELCA interprets otherwise and allowed a vote to be taken on a social / policy statement conflicting with its own highest documents, its constitution. It is this which has yielded the confessional and constitutional crisis the ELCA is living with and through, causing many, many churches and individual members to vote either with their whole church, their feet, their dollars or some combination.
–it affirms that ELCA believes that homosexuals should in no way be discriminated against as citizens and that congregations and members should be extend welcome, care and support for homosexuals and their families and advocate for their legal protection. Id. at 19, para. 2. This seems to be the crux of your open letter and to that extent I have never heard anyone within the ELCA or my former ELCA, now LCMC congregation, or any other Lutheran denomination claim otherwise. It is wrong to abandon, marginalize or leave our brothers and sisters or neighbors disadvantaged, victimized or discriminated against in material or spiritual ways. It is wrong to stand down to oppression and not witness against it.
If we have no agreement about whether to “honor, lift up, shelter and protect” homosexual unions / conduct, then some congregations and members believe the opposite– that homosexual conduct is sinful. Practicing homosexuals who wish to remain as practicing homosexual conduct may not prefer to hear this and may wish to depart. Some may be convicted by the Holy Spirit and feel called to celibacy and chaste homosexual relationships just as many heterosexuals who are unmarried feel called to celibacy and chaste heterosexual relationships.
There are far many more heterosexuals who commit sexual sin and are unrepentant in it, and the church has failed to proclaim the truth to them that adultery and fornication are grave sin. It is unpopular.
Nowhere does the Social Statement exegete biblical passages in Levitical law regarding any human sexual conduct. Is all Levitical law dispensed with? Or only some of it, based on “bound conscience” that is tied to my own judgment and experience but not to Scripture and reason as Luther propounded.
This gospel reminds me of the lyrics of the Beatles’ song “All You Need Is Love” repeated, in varying lilting, lyrical ways, with a ba-da-da-dah and an “it’s easy” thrown in once in a while. Catchy, appealing very feel-good.
Wishing you blessings and the fire of the Holy Spirit to ignite your work within the ELCA.
February 28, 2015 at 3:24 pm
Yes, Pr. Juan, and that is still the official teaching of the ELCA as expressly stated within the ELCA’s social statement, “Human Sexuality: Gift and Trust” at p.15 at para. 3 (2009). Per the ELCA website, a social statement is many things, but it is primarily a teaching and theological document (I am paraphrasing).
Even though the ELCA affirms the historic Christian and traditional confessional Lutheran teachings on marriage, it separates sexual expression as being exclusively for marriage, stating that trust is the basis for sexual relations and that we have a duty to promote alternative social structures which seek the highest level of accountability to promote trust.
It remains unclear whether marriage for opposite sex couples will become optional in the ELCA as long as they commit to monogamous lifelong relationships, or whether the ELCA will go the other route after the U.S.Supreme Court makes marriage equality a constitutional right this June, and the ELCA will follow suit and simply redefine marriage as being an two adults permitted to marry under the civil law.
One or the other change will be done at a Churchwide assembly as long as the proposal for change is submitted in writing six months in advance. The Assembly votes by a simple majority to approve the change to the social statement, and voila! There is a new theology and teaching within the ELCA. I expect this will happen before 2020, likely at the 2019 Assembly, though it could happen at the 2016 Triennial if the ELCA Churchwide leadership is feeling bold enough to do it so soon. Blessings to you.
March 1, 2015 at 12:52 pm
Official teachings of the Lutheran Church: For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God— not the result of works, so that no one may boast. Eph. 2:8-9
March 1, 2015 at 12:54 pm
For freedom Christ has set us free. Stand firm, therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery. Gal. 5:5
March 1, 2015 at 12:55 pm
You who want to be justified by the law have cut yourselves off from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. Gal. 5:4
March 1, 2015 at 1:00 pm
Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree” Gal. 3:13
March 1, 2015 at 1:02 pm
Now before faith came, we were imprisoned and guarded under the law until faith would be revealed. Therefore the law was our disciplinarian until Christ came, so that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer subject to a disciplinarian, for in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith. Gal. 3:23-26
March 1, 2015 at 1:04 pm
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not subject to the law. Gal. 5:18
March 3, 2015 at 4:40 am
Following the law does not justify anyone. Yet antinomianism is not what Christ preached or taught. The ELCA’s social statement preaches and teaches a new gospel of sexual union condemned as sin for the past 2,000 years. It does so without biblical exegesis of passages calling such conduct an abomination. Too hot to handle so it simply ignores them altogether rather than even make a statement saying, “these no longer apply in light of God’s grace” or whatever.
The ELCA elevated sinful conduct to sanctified behavior worthy of the highest protections of law as an official teaching and theology of the ELCA. This was patently done to accommodate a social and political agenda that is not Christ-centered.
You as a Bishop are apologizing to the LGBT community for prior church teaching. The social statement is actually accepting and affirming of the “prior church teaching” as one of four “local options” which the church.
The ELCA either deals in half-truths or allows diametrically opposing truths. Either way, it’s a departure from gospel and following the world.
March 3, 2015 at 7:35 am
Not everyone agrees with you. Sorry.
March 3, 2015 at 7:39 am
Antinomianism is a complete rejection of all law. Paul’s point in Galatians is that the law in its entirety is insufficient. So he is comfortable letting go of circumcision, even though God told Moses it was an everlasting covenant. Peter lets go of dietary laws. Jesus himself breaks the law and gets in trouble for it. No Christians I know of keep the 613 laws of the Bible. Anyone who has read Leviticus knows this is as it should be. So, by what criteria do we decide which laws are binding on Christians today? Many today now understand homosexuality not as a moral failing but as a biological reality. Finally, even for those who maintain a view that homosexuality is sinful, it is correct to apologize for the horrific treatment gay and lesbian people have received by the church. It is also right to welcome them. Peace.
March 3, 2015 at 7:47 am
When we lose confidence in the gospel, we resort to the law.
March 3, 2015 at 10:57 am
MichaelRinehart, the folks charged with the 8 year long multimillion dollar sexuality statement funded by the church altered 2,000 years of church teaching without even a cursory treatment of passages which form the basis of the new teaching and four part theology regarding homosexual conduct. The task force could hardly claim it didn’t have the time or resources to do this. You as much as did it in a very cursory fashion in blog post just now. Eight years and a group of people working in it affords the opportunity to do a full treatment yet the task force never touched upon this. This is a gross deficiency in the social statement which weakens its ability to be a reliable teaching or trustworthy theological document, no matter how well-intentioned. And I do acknowledge that it is well-intentioned.
This omission of Scriptural exegesis about homosexual conduct, coupled with U-turn in traditional church teaching that some particular types of sexual conduct are accepted outside of Christian marriage should be sheltered and lifted up and blessed has left many in the ELCA shaking and scratching their heads, others heading for the door, and others defending the findings of the task force as being overdue and “it’s about time”. I find that to be he both a tragedy and the natural outcome of the product rendered as the official teaching stance of the ELCA.
Many faithful Lutherans and other Christians see the Human Sexuaity statement the way I do. They are characterized within the ELCA as “fundamentalists” even if they don’t read the Bible that way or self-identify that way (as I don’t– far from it), just as the ELCA official stance has been characterized by confessional Lutherans as antinomian, even though the ELCA does not self-identify as such. It’s clear that Luther’s bound conscience was tied to Scripture and clear reason. The ELCA’s . . . not so much in the Human Sexuality statement. We are allowed to choose from the buffet of four different options and all are okay and we are going to teach all of these things in our congregations along with our welcome to homosexuals. Each ELCA congregation decides what it believes, whether homosexual conduct is a sin, the product of a sinful world, or mirrors God’s plan for homosexuals and God’s creation.
All that being said, everyone deserves and should be extended an intentional and sincere welcome into church to hear the full Gospel rightly preached, to be affirmed and loved and connected to community. And it is true that homosexuals have been and continue to be marginalized, vilified persecuted and physically, mentally and emotionally harmed both within and outside the church. In many, many places in the U.S. and the world, this is still a tragic lived reality, and the Westboro “Baptist” “group” has made such a hate campaign against homosexuals, anyone who loves them or stands with them its special target of its “missions”. This is also a departure from the Gospel, and is sinful teaching. It will bear no fruits of the Holy Spirit.
Sexual sin from heterosexuals, pastors, Bishops, teenagers, homosexuals, teachers, representatives of Congress, etc. should all be called out as not Christlike and against God’s plan for his children. All sin, sexual or otherwise, needs a message of call for repentance and God’s grace. Sexual sin cannot bear the fruits of the Holy Spirit. We cannot get there on our own power or by our own following of rules no matter. We need to follow God and His grace is sufficient to do this when we step out in faith and love, even to those who disagree or mock us or seek to hurt us.
“Just the way I am” is how just God loves us and welcomes us. He never means to leave us there. It’s where he meets us and asks us to follow.
I realize that discussions like these, even when civil, do not convert souls. Conversion is an interior process that happens when people hear the Gospel and experience God’s love and the peace that passes all human understanding. My hope is not to change your heart or mind but to plant seeds both in you and anyone who reads this far.
There is much more work to be done in this and many arenas where Christians of all stripes and color face death, persecution and marginalization under the color of law by oppressive regimes. I will continue to pray for the whole of the God’s church and for all of us sinners. Thy Will, not mine, be done, Lord.
I am certain that this will be my last post in this particular thread. And I sincerely thank you for a respectful engagement on difficult and divisive issue. May God bless you.
March 4, 2015 at 7:55 pm
As St. Paul writes to the Romans, “Should we continue in sin in order that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin go on living in it?” It seems to me the ones without confidence in the Gospel are those who, by declaring by fiat that particular behaviors are no longer to be considered sinful, render it unnecessary.
The Rev. Steven P. Tibbetts,
ELCA Pastor
July 6, 2015 at 10:11 pm
It makes me sad that someone would refer to God’s grace as something to say “whatever” about…
July 7, 2015 at 10:18 am
Thanks for your continuing voice in the ELCA. Sometimes I wish I could move to your synod just so you could be my bishop. But then I’d have to leave a congregation which I love dearly. So, I’ll just consider you my virtual bishop.
July 7, 2015 at 1:06 pm
Every sinner no matter the sin should be accepted and welcomed by the Church.
But if a Christian, especially a pastor, equivocates when asked if homosexual activity (or ANY ungodly behavior) is a sin then he is an apostate… A false teacher as Jesus warns us about.
When Paul rebukes “those who practice such things” and those who “give approval to those who practice them” at the end of Romans 1 what sins do you think he had in mind?
Would homosexual couple be under Church discipline?
According to Titus can a practicing homosexual be a church elder?
Is pre-marital homosexual activity a sin?
I’ve asked these questions of self described Christians who celebrate same-sex marriage and can’t get coherent Biblical responses. Because there are none.
July 7, 2015 at 1:11 pm
It is amazing to me how people will use the bible to support prejudice. It’s been used to support slavery, the subjugation of women, the marginalization of the LGBT community and all kids of bigotry. Being gay is as natural as being red-headed. Thank God we’re coming out of a long period of darkness where LGBT folks were abused, labeled as sinful or perverted.
July 7, 2015 at 1:53 pm
You made my point for me by not answering any of my questions. But that’s ok… most people won’t or can’t.
July 7, 2015 at 3:59 pm
1. Paul has in mind temple pedophilia.
2. Depends on which church.
3. We have no idea what Titus would say. If, you are referring to what Paul said to Titus, or whoever wrote that letter (hint: it wasn’t Paul), no one can be, since the standard is “blameless.” The author also approved of slaves and says they should be completely subject to their masters (2:9). Women are to be subject to their husbands. I certainly hope the letter to Titus is not the standard. It represents an ancient patriarchal social order.
July 8, 2015 at 8:24 am
Reblogged this on Sisters of Christ.
July 8, 2015 at 4:28 pm
As a struggling member of the ELCA I both appreciate and applaud this message. This is the Jesus I grew up knowing. This is the message I have always thought Christianity stood for. I have been increasingly bewildered in the past decade of the rise and acceptance of faiths that shout hate and ugliness. Thank you, Bishop, for reaffirming what I already knew in my heart. Karen in Virginia.
July 8, 2015 at 7:50 pm
Thanks for your courageous words. I believe we are called to worship Christ through the living Word. When Jesus healed people on the Sabbath, he was accused of breaking the law. His response was that the Sabbath was made for humans; humans are not made for the Sabbath. In his breaking of this law he was unrepentant. Yet no one would argue that Jesus was living in sin. The commandment given to Moses was, “you shall not commit adultery.” The issue was not of taboo acts, but of the integrity of relationships.” I find the ELCA’s defining sexual ethics in terms of accountability and commitment, to be helpful.
Those who have come to reinterpret the church’s teaching on LGBT issues have not taken the task lightly. The church has been discussing these issues since I was a child, half a century ago. I believe that when Jesus gave the power to retain or forgive sins to the church, he gave us a responsibility interpret what is acceptable practice. Peter exemplified the living nature of Scripture when he pushed to open the church to gentiles apart from the rite of circumcision. I believe that the church was right to condemn slavery even though it was practiced throughout scripture. As for scripture being clear about marriage being one man and one woman, I daresay our ancestor Abraham didn’t get the memo.
I have a love for this church and all its members. Being one in Christ has never been easy. But we are the body of Christ and it is apostasy to turn against each other. They will know we are his disciples by our love.
I applaud your leadership. May God bless his church.
July 10, 2015 at 10:54 am
I love your invitation for people to explore participating in an “imperfect Church” – indeed, there’s not other kind. Here’s a helpful resource to help folks locate progressive Christian churches near them: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/rogerwolsey/2014/01/7-ways-to-find-a-progressive-church/
Roger Wolsey, author, “Kissing Fish: christainity for people who don’t like christianity”
July 10, 2015 at 5:55 pm
I feel sorry for the 10 percent of the population who are gay or transgender. I am sure they would like to be accepted. There is a 50 percent divorce rate in heterosexuals, so who says they have all the answers? Sure it is easy to say Love one another, but we all have qualifiers. Christ will judge us all in the end, I am going with Christ and love.
July 12, 2015 at 1:10 pm
There is one word that sums this whole thing up…APOSTACY.
July 12, 2015 at 6:18 pm
Yes, God created all people but gay is not genetic. It is a choice.
July 12, 2015 at 6:20 pm
Well the elders should NOT be sitting in judgement. That is not their job or our job. Love the sinner, hate the sin. And we are all sinners in some fashion or other.
July 12, 2015 at 6:21 pm
One sexuality is not a genetic trait. But one’s sex is genetic and immutable.
July 13, 2015 at 2:29 pm
Science or opinion?
July 13, 2015 at 4:04 pm
Proud of you, Pastor (Bishop now I hear!) Mike. Thank you for making a public stand for all members of the ELCA community, though I would expect nothing less of you.
July 21, 2015 at 11:32 pm
Good to hear from you Janna! Let’s connect on FB. I’d love to hear where u landed.